My Curation Algorithm & My Conviction for HIVE Social Network
For a long time, I intended to write a post about how I curate. Somehow, I never started such a post since my 'algo' isn't straightforward. Then I left a large comment to a HIVE member in which I mentioned I may write a post. His response was, in my own words: "Please do so!" (source).
And finally! I made it! I am going to try to tell all of you who like to know, the algorithms I use for curation. What I find important in content and for HIVE. What I like to see. What I look for when I intend to give a vote.
Those of you who don't like to spend minutes of your time reading the entire write-up, you may skip to the 'Endnote' section, in which I give a summary.
A Little History
Focus on curation started out back in 2017 when I was approached with the question if I wanted to curate the music side of the predecessor to HIVE. Although I stuck to the music side of things for a long, long time, by now I curate posts in any segment. Still, I visit the music side of things almost daily, looking for textual posts.
Curie - back in time, one of the biggest curator services - just launched community curation. For some reason, they thought I could be someone helping out. So I did. Initially, with a few team members, but as time progressed, I found myself being the entire team. Perhaps not so democratic, but honestly, the time spent finding posts, deciding what to vote for and casting the votes is a faster job on my own then with a team. Not that I am left all by myself; the Curie team is still watching over my shoulders, as far as I know. But even when they wouldn't, I try my best to reward those users and posts that deserve the vote.
Valuable Content: Not Straightforward
In principle, I am somewhat idealistic and like to reward those posts and comments that add value to HIVE. However, it is mighty difficult to define what is valuable and what is not. I give an example:
When a user with a large following and an interactive userbase on other social media (regardless of which social media this is), starts posting on HIVE, this in itself can give a (large) boost to HIVE, especially when such a user is going to promote HIVE to their large userbase.
We've seen in the past some of those users being pushed out of HIVE (and its predecessor) because the users weren't 'playing' the engagement game at HIVE. Honestly, I can't disagree too much, since one of my views adding value to HIVE is engagement. As a matter of fact, I don't like users pushing out posts while not engaging with the wider community, including engaging with other users in those users' blog channels.
But then again, I know a few users on HIVE creating and publishing many posts, not engaging on other users' posts, but being quite active in the comment section on their own publications. Although I do like to see such users going to other users' posts also, I still curate some of those users since I believe their content is of high quality and important for the HIVE social network. Posts that set an example for other users in our ecosystem, while also serving as examples for newbies and for individuals not on HIVE yet. Post with personality, with opinions, with depth (more about this later).
For this example, I hope you see how conflicting and - in a way - subjective curation can be. Am not even sure what I'll do when the next user with - let's say - 1M followers on Reddit opens an account at HIVE and starts posting, but not playing the engagement game. On the one hand, I would like such a user to stay on board. On the other hand, I think HIVE will become a post-push network and money extractor when only a few engage.
Blogging is my Conviction for HIVE Social Network
On the blogging side of things, I see HIVE mostly as what I articulated with 'blogging', a social network around text. I like to see our blockchain being used for textual contributions, rather than for image or video contributions. One of the reasons for this: Text is what is preserved by our blockchain, each letter, word and sentence. While images are not part of our chain (we have some kind of centralised image store), and videos also not (we have 3speak network, a network which isn't the HIVE blockchain). I am not saying that I am against images and videos, not at all. However, when someone posts images and videos, I prefer - by far - a textual blog post that involves those images and videos, rather than posts that put the images/photographs and videos in the centre. On the other hand, I know users who spend quality time creating images and videos with value.
Effort, Depth and Personal Touch
People talk about skin in the game. Skin in the game is not only financial, but also the time spent. And even when spending much time within HIVE, this doesn't mean the contributions are valuable, whatever valuable is, something that can be quite subjective.
That being said, I do like to see people spending time in what they create and publish. Add value by not just copy-paste whatever information we can find elsewhere, but add a personal touch: Ideas, Thoughts, Opinions and whatnot. Not acting like some journalist, a content refactorer, a summariser; I don't believe in such type of content for HIVE.
The personal touch is what I think is needed for HIVE. To create something more unique in the world of long-form social networks. And here is another element I believe in for HIVE, long-form content. Long-form content allows depth in whatever we share, and that is, in fact, what I think HIVE needs to stand out in the crowd: Depth.
The world is becoming way too black/white. Nothing is just right or wrong. Everything has good and bad sides. In fact, in my worldview, everything is in the grey zone, everything is nuanced. To articulate the nuance, we need long-form content. With short-form posts, such nuance cannot be addressed and brought across. We truly need long-form for such.
Curation Parameters: a Summary
Let's get down to what I look for when curating posts, in short.
Engagement
I look at the post/comment ratio plus the type of comments ('thank you' comments don't count).
Content Topic and Opinions
This doesn't matter to me; I curate almost any topic.
Post Write-ups
I look for personality and like to see users' own thoughts, opinions, ideas - I like to see text, write-ups.
Styling
I like to see effort.
Blog channel
I like to see variation in posts (but this isn't an important one for me for curating). However, posts should be unique, ie not much of the post being a copy with some extra added to each new one.
HIVE Power
Someone who is rock bottom all the time, I skip, mostly (this also depends on the region of the world the user is from).
Post Value (current)
Plays a role, but I do vote for posts with a higher dollar value when post/user deserves a vote.
Past Post Value in Blog channel
When constantly high, I tend not to vote, but it depends. Great posts still get my vote. Added to that, I may vote for users I know doing (good) things behind the scenes, outside their blog/comments. For these, I may lower my expectations for their posts. Doesn't happen too often, but it happens.
Nothing is Strict
Having said all that, I do not always follow all the above. It depends. It can happen I like a post, but it is of 'low' quality, whatever 'quality' may mean. I may vote for high rep and low HP, or a low amount of comments. Honestly, I may relax my view on all parameters I mentioned above, which can depend on my mood of the day. I mean, when I feel very forgiving, I may simply vote for interesting content regardless of any of the parameters I mentioned. The thing is, when I am strict, it is mighty difficult to find enough authors to not fall into the trap of voting for the same users, constantly. Therefore, I aim to be forgiven most of the time. Truthfully, I can have many not-so-forgiven days in a row. And suddenly, I can have a period of forgiven days. Confusing! Isn't it? THE reason I was hesitating to write this post. In the end, my curation behaviour may show a different reality.
Endnote
My conviction is that HIVE's niche revolves around long-form content written with a personal touch and depth.
Comments
43 commentsI don't have strict rules for what I curate. I have certain things I enjoy and I don't have time to look at everything. I do value good writing, but I enjoy art and music too. I think we have to accept that short-form is very popular these days and we can have a slice of that. It can have value too. That value can be in engagement with discussion around current topics. It's all an experiment and each of us can use it in our own way.
Sure, this is all up to each individual
True, but I don't think HIVE setup will be best for short-form content.
That is cool and great that you curate what you enjoy.
I want to see more of the stuff I enjoy. We need to build up those niche communities. Everyone should find something they like.
Yeah, I think we first need much more active users to be able to increase ‘valuable’ content for all. But am sure we will get there one day 😉
This is a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation.
I think we do have a lot of niche communities, but these often have just a few active users. To attract new users you need to have an active community.
I've put quite some effort in my cycling community, but it hasn't become as active as I had hoped.
Even though I had OCD Community incubation support which resulted in higher upvotes and I promoted the posts on web2 Social Media.
Agree on the chicken egg problem. Honestly, I was never a fan of communities. Not that I don’t like them, but the active users on HIVE was never that big. Plus many that started out on HIVE used the communities with more eyes and curators. And still is today. We have communities now, so we somehow have to deal with that fact. Perhaps combining cycling with other content to appeal to none cyclers as well? Some in our community do this.
The problem isn't enough cyclists. There are a lot of Strava2Hive posts that show there are enough cyclists. But just a few of them are bloggers. They just automatically upload their rides.
Combining the community with other content could be an option, but I doubt if it will really help. Communities need a few frequent bloggers to make it active and attract more users.
I was thinking of creating cyclist post for other communities. Like nature, worldmappin and such, by adding relevant content for those communities. I know, this moves away from the cyclist community, but my take is that when a community is hardly used it may not be of interest to actively use it.
Ah, I misunderstood. I would rather stick to the niche communities for the main subject of the post. Doing this gives the communities some more visibility and more members. But we just have too few active Hivers to get real interaction and interaction isn't really encouraged either.
If you look at photography. There are a lot photography communities that are very active. That is, with photographers that create blogs.
But even in the photography lovers community with 25621 members and 1500 weekly interactions, most of the blogs receive no comments at all.
And those that do are from people with a big Hive stake.
But I don't think we can do a lot about it.
Perhaps we can bit this required a change to the chain. Create comment reward pool and a changeanle parameter to set post and comment reward ratio. We could try no vote power for post, all vote rewards for comment votes only.
I've created the topcomment initiative to reward and encourage people to comment more.
I can't tell if it helps, but it is something.
That is a GREAT initiative indeed! Didnt know you created it. Superrrr
Perhaps we can bit this required a change to the chain. Create comment reward pool and a changeanle parameter to set post and comment reward ratio. We could try no vote power for post, all vote rewards for comment votes only.
I have some limits, but mostly I curate posts I like!
I guess, that is a good way to curate. Makes it relatively 'easy' 😉
Well, yes and no. It should be balanced and take time to read/listen/watch everything :)
For sure, but not many self impossed guardrails I meant.
I find myself reading posts and then discover it is eg someone who almost never engages, or someone constantly powering down to a few HP, or some other self set guardrail for a no vote 😉
Well, we differ on this point. 😎
In principle, I don't care what people do with their earnings. I think that's their business; after all, they earned it. Also, from personal experience, I know that some people are not communicative, while others are too much for my taste.
However, I am allergic to finding out that some people have multiple accounts and then channel everything into one, and then out of the system...😠
You mean using actively multiple accounts? I see them hete and there but I leave them be and never look at them anymore. But I can’t guarentee I never vote for such account. When higher reps, and enough action, it happens I dont research such account too much.
Not confusing at all, pretty much straight forward. I certainly curate a lot more erratically. Depending on the time I have at hand and who's up in the feed. But I do enjoy a good and creative read. And the interaction.
I didn't know that images and videos aren't part of the chain. That's good to know. Since they're embedded in the curation/earning system, I thought they were. I do enjoy many of the pictures presented here, there are a few really talented photographers around. But a lot of them don't do much texting, so it's hard to evaluate.
The links to the images and videos are on HIVE chain, but just the links.
Images are in some sort of Image server, I believe more or less centralised.
Videos - the 3Speak ones - are on 3Speak network, which is decentralised in a kinda p2p-network setup. Not sure how 3Speak network is implemented today, I didn't had a look at it for years. But it suppose to be decentralised.
Photographs and Curation: I do like some of the photographers we have in our community. But I find it difficult to curate them. I do from time to time, but I also notice some people kinda rotating photos, or using the same material, add some filters, and post again. Nothing against such action, but I cannot use my Curie powers for such. My personal vote, I may use when I truly like the photos.
Curating can take quite a bit of time indeed. Especially when reading the entire post carefully and responding to such posts. Honestly, when I need to go quick on curation due to time constraints IRL, I read 'diagonal', ie speed reading and trigger on the style of post (when new user for me), and story 'redline'. For the users I know, this is a quick way of identifying if the post belongs to the top 10 posts I like to vote for the day.
Thanks for the info on pics & videos, that does make sense. And I'll be extra grateful for every Curie-Vote that I get from now on, knowing the effort that you put into it! Thank you for doing that job!
Thanks much and your welcome 🥳
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STOPI am very fussy over who I curate now, and for unfamiliar accounts I always do an account overview. Sadly not that many pass my threshold and I always end up supporting people who I know and can trust.
Recently I came across a new account that looked legit (quite a rare thing nowadays). I delegated him some RC and offered some newbie tips including doing an intro post. He responded through a comment back. That was 3 weeks ago. Since then he's followed zero people, received a handful of comments from real people, and made zero comments other than to mine. He post regularly thru one particular front end who rewards him generously, and when they don't he gets zero rewards.
This is a bit off topic from your post, but I wanted to bring up one of the issue in how difficult it is to find good content to support on Hive
I fully agree with you. I did the same to a few accounts. Similar behaviour. Posting, not following anybody, no comments. Indeed very hard to find interesting genuine interested people in HIVE.
Said user probably thinks this is web2 where 99% or users consume content and only 1% create, so they don't need to engage with people. Lots of people join web3 with that wrong mentality and that's where they fail
True that 🙏
Ah, reading this takes me back to when I was still actively curating with Curie, back when it was so big.
Many authors did get upvoted and received rewards. But at the same time, many of them kept posting quality content without getting upvotes from curation guilds. Those posts only generated dust rewards. Not gonna lie, it’s kinda sad to see.
But yeah, some of them just didn’t engage with others. They weren’t even trying to comment on other people’s posts. It felt like they were just posting and hoping for rewards, without really being part of the community.
I could be wrong here. Maybe everyone had their own reasons. I’m just sharing how it felt from my side. It’s just sad to see, because the platform had so much potential when people truly connected and supported each other.
Hmm reading your curation parameters, its no wonder why Curie approached you back then haha.
I use similar parameters when developing my search tools for Hive content to curate.
Btw, I tend to agree regarding long form. Also, long form is easier to curate for me, since it will be easier to evaluate the quality, to see its AI generated or not, etc. But I do have some love for shorter content too. Flash fictions by @raj808 for example, I liked them a lot.
True, short form can be good as well. Als true on easier curation on long form, at least easier to identify indeed.
The tools you have are manual like I do, or youbhave a digital search tool? In the distant past we had a search tool for curators, but they stopped running it. Am in search for another tool.
Oh yeah I have developed one, more or less similar like what curie had before, only it's not online at the moment, few bugs here and there and I don't have much time to maintain it. I believe @geekgirl also developed one. It was based on Hivesql, and Hafsql (on my tool).
Whenever you make this tool available, let me know.
have a look: https://curator-staging.up.railway.app/
WOWOWOWOWOW!
This is great! And you moved FAST!
If I may ask: How is EQR calculated?
Do you like to get some suggestions?
One such is I like to see 'quality' ratings over a longer period than 7 days max. I mean, someone may write a few posts recently with low amount of comments, but may have a much higher comment-to-post ratio in the somewhat distant past (like a month, or a quarter). Also, quality of posts itself would be great though I suspect some LLM is need to calssify, next to a classification system, making such a - bit - more complex.
But even the way the tool is, it'll be a great way in trying to find some authors and posts I didn't discover yet.
Thanks very much for this work!
Thank you for your kind words and feedback! Yea I expect feedback 😀
Regarding EQR score, at the moment it's still very quantitative, only looking at comment count the past 7 days and length. Haven't put any other algorithm or logic there.
I will refine it and hopefully can release a production env soon.
I’ll play around with the tool a bit more. Perhaps some more feedback and suggestions. How best to bring those to you? You have Discord or something?
Yep, I’m on Discord. Not super active though. But feel free to drop your feedback there. You’re on the Curie server, right? Wait, I’ll ping you in your DMs.
I really enjoyed reading your perspective on this.
I think the main difference for me is I tend to ignore how much rewards the user received. Over rewarded or under rewarded is a hard thing for me to wrap my head around…is it based on Hive value or dollar value? Who knows? 😅
I like that you included your curation is impacted by your mood. I think we should curate like people and should not be expected to be perfectly consistent.
Also I would add, curating should be fun. When it starts to feel like a chore for me, I take a break and get back into it when I’m in the “right” headspace.
So true, but honestly, it took me quite some time before I could accept my mood based curation 😆
In the end, I decided to accept my flaws since I saw something positive in it: I distribute my curation power across more users which is good in my view.
I agree, and I take responsibility for the Curie power given to me. For years, until last summer, I felt I had to use those powers every single day to try to do good to the community and use the powers granted to me. Since then, I was able to change my mind, by taking a half-year break from HIVE and crypto in general. I do like the new voting rules, which allow me to vote for two days so I can skip a day of post-hunting. Plus I seem to become more relaxed with my self-impossed rules. But still, I try and go by those rules, but the days I go with more relaxed rules have increased. Perhaps I am becoming lazy! 😆😆😆
Welldone! I’m a curator too, it’s not easy to be consistent and sometimes it feels like there are so many contents and less structure.
So true. My morning round felt kinda like in between being consistent and not consistent 😆 Perhaps something to do with me being on vacation and trying to nibble some time, be getting out of bed before the rest awakes 🥳