HiveComb

I am sorry you live in a war zone. It must be very difficult. But could your fear not be skewing your understanding, just as it skewed the understandin of most people during the covid con? Did you experience, as I did, calls for me to be placed in a concentration camp for my lifestyle choice to not be jabbed? Were you thought to be a deadly force, an enemy of the people, a terrorist? I was called all of those things, I moved to a different part of NYS just to feel safer from that enmity, that government-fed enmity. I was on the front lines then, you are on the front lines now. I appreciate your perspective, and certainly with first hand experience like this you have much for us to learn from, but those in Gaza are saying the exact same things about you. The conflict has been deliberately managed by our ruling class, and has little to nothing to do with the actions of civilians living in those areas. Lies about both of you abound!

My family with 3 young special needs kids has had to shelter in the safe room night after night as Iran and its proxies like Hamas, Hizbollah and Houthis fired huge missiles at entirely civilian targets

That must be awful. It's terrible for anyone in the area. The ongoing conflict over the decades must cause a lot of trauma and stress. You must be so worried for your children. I am sure you can empathise, in that case, with the schools, universities and hospitals hit by the IDF in Gaza. When it's your own experience, I imagine it's much easier to understand how others might be suffering.

They are SO careful (far too careful IMHO) to protect Gazans not directly firing at them.

Unfortunately, that's not the news the rest of the world is hearing. Whilst you might say it's propaganda, this war is very much a modern war in that it's been televised via social media. IT's been very difficult to hide what has been happening and what the IDF (and yes, of course Hamas) have been doing. OF course you can never trust the 'truth' coming out of war zones - Hamas 'official' reports are just as untrustworthy as Israel's, and perhaps what to believe is very subjective. Either way it's a fucking terrible situation.

However, there are many verifiable reports on the amount of children that have been killed since Oct 7 - conservatively, 30 percent of casualties, of which there are around at least 60,000, and nearly 30,000 of them woman. Comparatively, less than 2000 Israelis have died as a direct consequence of this war. These figures alone - verified through a number of sources, so I find it rather dubious that the entire world is lying about this for some vendetta against Jews, as you seem to believe - is enough alone to make the 'free palestine' cry echo across the world.

As you say, propaganda can shape our view of the conflict. I think @owasco was on point here too. IT's quite possible that your own views are shaped by the Israeli media, and what is and isn't being reported. Whilst you might live in the area, your understanding might also be skewed by particular narratives you are also sold by your own government and media. I hardly think a few soldiers which are friends of yours are going to tell you the truth or even if they themselves know the full extent of what is happening. We always must think critically, no?

Anyone who believes and repeats the propaganda of a proscribed terrorist group like Hamas not only breaks the law by supporting a proscribed terrorist group

I think we can believe what we like based on what we have critically examined? And free speech should be upheld? Of course, no one would willingly believe or support terrorists. Nor would they support an army indiscriminately murdering woman and children, despite the line that they are 'avoiding killing woman and children', which isn't the case, given they have intentionally bombed schools and hospitals and apartment blocks.

anti-semites

Au contrare - pro Palestine groups have come out many times and insisted they are not anti Semite at all, they are anti genocide. They see the suffering in Gaza and want that to stop. Anti Jewish groups are entirely a different kettle of fish - and dont' get the support you claim. Most people know the difference between Jewish faith, and those that want the extermination of Palestinians at all costs. If they don't, then yes, we can cry idiocy.

Making false accusations against Jews to justify their murder is EXACTLY what the German Nazis did.

To reiterate, no one is making claims against jews. I certainly am not and nor is anyone else on this thread, or anyone I know, though I can probalby say confidently most people think God is a fairy tale used to justify war and many other untruths, but that's an entirely different argument.

Using the 'nazi' argument is a poor one, and asks me to back down because everyone knows that the death camps and the dispossession of the Jewish people was one of the worst things to happen in human history, so how could we possibly be like the Nazis?. But if you want to go there, there's actually quite the IDF is doing that are similiar with what the Nazis did. To emphasise something here - there's a massive difference between the criticism of Netanyahu and the IDF and the criticism of the Jewish people as a whole.

I think most of the world are horrified that Jews could live through the holocaust and then go and create their own holocaust too. Surely that's a primary reason to find a way out of the conflict that doesn't involve such indiscriminate slaughter. The world always felt absolute shame and horror at what happened in the second world war - a war both sets of my grandparents, GErman and English, were part of in some way, and they never completely knew what was happening until it was over because there just wasn't the media and wealth of information there is now - both truthful and distorted.

If you truely cared about the Gazan people you would be protesting about Egypt not letting them leave a war zone.

Are you doing the same?

THere's a whole range of complex reasons why that's not happening, and there's also the fact that if the Palestinians left their land then Israel would be happy, no? The settlers could move in and occupy the place like they've always wanted to. It would be very convenient indeed.

@apshamilton, I do think the truth in war is a slippery, complex thing, but I don't think we have to live in a place to have a good understanding of what's going on, not in this day and age with a plethora of information that gives us a pretty good idea. In fact, I think sometimes living in a place might distort perspective - you must concede this is at least a little true.

May you be willing to dig a little deeper and question further, just as we are here, far from the Middle East, and reading both sides - all sides - as much as possible, with increasing distrust in the governments that are fighting, apparently, on the people's behalf.

Did you just threaten to nuke me? 😂 No wonder Israelis have a bad reputation. 😂

Also, enough already with the 'poor me everyone hates jews' bullshit. Either you're paranoid delusional or you're trying to use it as a deflective argument and a poor one at that, or both.

My attempt at civility and intelligent discussion along with @owasco has ended up with your threats, which honest to goodness speaks absolute volumes.

Here is a video that explains what is going on. https://x.com/EinavAvizemer/status/1944703534944907670